[don't_fret_it]

i just became a member to this site. lot of good reading. i was taught the high octave scales but do not know how to apply them to anything. i practice them every time i pick up my guitar to get my fingers limber. could someone give me more incite on the high & low octave scales. thank you.

[guttertrashsingalong]

its the freqency the note rings out.to me its like hearing the d# on high E compared to the D# on low E.Produces a higher pitch..i guess ya can say compared to a mans voice a womans voice produces a higher octave.so im guessing ya can compare it to the ionian to the locrian. could be wrong.the scale work that will put all the notes into that higher freq would be considered high octave scales i guess..hope that made sense it did in my head.But i have never have anyone includng the couple of instructors i have had say hey lets run through some high octave scales.

[scotty_b]

Hey GT
I understand the idea of playing something in a higher register, but that is not the same as Ionian compared to the Locrian mode. A scale can commence from any position on the fretboard, and so the Locrian mode can be played in any register, as can any other mode, scale, arpeggio or chord. A scale is merely a theoretical construct allowing for organisation of a series of tones, grouped together to produce a particular sound. Many guitarists learn the modes in relation to the diatonic chords along the 6th string, and so they are told 'this is the lydian mode, this is the phrygian mode etc' by the note the pattern commences from on the 6th string. Of course, in a practical application of this, we see that it is all about responding musically to the given harmony we are addressing at that juncture, or the harmonic movement we are playing into.
As one representing the dark side of the force ( I would probably be categorised as a scale player amongst our group), and also something of a theory nerd ( I studied jazz at uni level, and find the subject fascinating, invigorating, and whenever I get the time I love to learn more) I have never heard the term 'high octave scales' and would like to know their construction so that I may offer up some advice.

[guttertrashsingalong]

scotty i understand its not the same.all i was doing was showing a example if how octave freqs are different between the 2 modes is all If played in the layout that most learn from.Of coarse ya can play any scale on any part of the fret never implied that you couldnt.

[scotty_b]

Hey GT
Mm ok sorry I don't understand what you are saying. I don't understand your example with the Ionian and Locrian modes and the register of male and female voices.
Sorry

[guttertrashsingalong]

i was wrong to assume that everyone learned the layout the same way i have learned.when i posted that i was refering to the 3,5,6...3,5,6...2,3,5..2,3,5..1,3,5..1,3,5........ .and the 13,15,17...13,15,17...12,14,15..12,14,15...12,13,1 5..12,13,15.AS A EXAMPLE!.sorry i just kinda assumed every learned them same way ...my bad..when i say male and female was just using that as a example of freq output.a womans voice was said to put out a higher octave than a males.but thats the way i learned them and just kinda went from that

[guttertrashsingalong]

for hgher octave scales would ya just be runing whatever scale using higer notes?

[guttertrashsingalong]

heres a great example of what i meant by male female octaves they same can be applied to guitar.or at least they what i think.isnt that why its called theory? * First octave (C1 - C2) - Deepest notes

Only the deepest basses (e.g. Barry White) can vocalize in the upper reaches on this low register

* Second octave (C2 - C3) - Most male voice

Most male voices can pitch in this octave, with the tenors barely skirting the top of it, while the basses can go almost all the way down through it. Some basses (basso profundo can go completely and beyond the bottom). A rare female (Mariah Carey or Toni Braxton) can also like the tenor skirt the top of this octave.

* Third octave (C3 - C4) - Most voices

Most voices have some abilities in this octave. All male voices are strong here and female low notes usually start in this octave. Contraltos can pitch D3 or E3, while sopranos start higher at G3 or A4* (see end of text).

* Fourth octave (C4 - C5) - Nearly universal (this is the middle octave)

Nearly any and every voice has an ability in some part of this octave. For the male voices, the higher notes (in head or mixed voice) are here. Basses will probably end around D4 or E4. This same octave is the lower part of most female vocal ranges

* Fifth octave (C5 - C6) - Most female voice

Many male voice do not enter this octave, but some voices (especially the tenor who must be able to vocalize the C5 or Tenor C to classify) can. Contraltos will end around the F5 or G5. Sopranos will reach the top out somewhere between A5 and C6, depending on color and altitude. (examples, Judy Garland, Ethel Merman, Liza Minnelli, and Shirley Bassey)

* Sixth Octave (C6 - C7) - Sopranos

Very few men can do anything in this octave. The classical range for an operatic soprano ends at C6 or D6, although many, especially the coloratura can go higher. In contemporary music, sopranos are classified by level. A soprano's level is determined by her altitude. A soprano that has no abilities in the whistle register is a Soprano I (do not confuse this with the choir classification of first or second soprano). A soprano that can reach into the whistle register vocalizing over at least most of the sixth octave is a soprano II (example, Regine Velasquez).

* Seventh Octave-High (C7 - C8) - Rare soprano (see Whistle Register for full examples of singers capable of this altitude)

Classical music deems the seventh octave not musical; the highest operatic piece utilizes a G♯6. Sopranos that can vocalize here (significantly above C7) are Soprano IIIs. Very few have any significant ability here, thus a soprano III is rare. Mariah Carey, Minnie Riperton, Christina Aguilera, and Rachelle Ferrell are examples.

[scotty_b]

Originally Posted by guttertrashsingalong

..i guess ya can say compared to a mans voice a womans voice produces a higher octave.so im guessing ya can compare it to the ionian to the locrian. .

Hey
Thanks for your explanation of octaves, that is what I meant notes sitting within a certain register.
How does this relate to comparing the Ionian mode to the locrian?

[guttertrashsingalong]

it dosent i was showing what difference between octaves are.the way i placed the scales up there i was try to explain that switch from octave to octave.i could have used locrian to locrian. .like ya said could have just use any scale to show that.but ya asked what a high octave scale was and to me that was easiest way to explain it.prob confused a few by using the 2 modes as a way when all i need was to show one and would have done the trick.but i jumped ahead of myself.and thats was my fault.bad way of wording it out and showing a example.i just wanted to use a comparison.that if you play this scale in these notes then this one in these you se the octave difference

[sergio serna]

kirk, give me a good guitar exercise so i can practice and get good with my fingers, you know something simple that can help me learn to play faster.

[Justapicker]

Originally Posted by scotty_b

Just out of curiosity, what are high octave scales?
I can't say it is a term I have ever come across before.

Just scales in the higher positions I assume.
This is what Segovia had to say about scales:

The student who wishes to acquire a firm technique on the guitar should not neglect the patient study of scales. If he practices them 2 hours a day, he will correct faulty hand positions, graduallly increase the strength of the fingers, and prepare the joints for later speed studies. Thanks to the independence and elasticity which the fingers develop through the study of scales, the student will soon acquire a quality which is very difficult to gain latter: physical beauty of sound. I say physical, because sonority and its infinite shadings are not the result of stubborn will power but spring from the innate excellence of the spirit.

In order to derive the greatest possible benefit from scale exercises, play them slowly and vigorously at first, more lightly and rapidly later. Many hours of arduous and frequently futile exercises can be condensed into one hour of scales. The practice of scales enables one to solve a greater number of technical problems in a shorter time than the study of any other exercise.

As far as application, you construct your melodies, chords and arpeggio patterns from the various scales. When improvising you can use any scale that contains the notes in the chord you are playing over. You use those notes to construct musical phrases, or parts of phrases. That might include arpeggios of the underlying harmony or an extension of the harmony, superimposing the notes of another triad over the existing harmony, etc.

To put it another way, the scales are the letters of the alphabet you are using to create musical words and sentences. Don't just recite the alphabet in order. Create something out of it.