[Clancy]

Originally Posted by Justapicker

The classical repertoire would have single line melodies in 1st position rated as "Grade 1", simple two voice pieces in 1st position would be "Grade 2", etc. etc. Complex pieces that have have a lot of counterpoint, multiple voices and change position a lot get a "Grade 9" rating. Something like Bachs Fugue in Aminor would probably get a "9" ranking.

If you compare the relative complexity of your lessons to something like Fred Noads "100 Graded Studies" you might be able to devise a ranking system of your own.

Well that's got me confused. We were thinking more of allowing members to rank the lessons, so we want to keep it simple, but thanks for your input anyway Justapicker.

Any other ideas before I need to put my own brain to work here, which I'd really rather not do.

Clancy

[mattz196]

My suggestion would be to ask your moderators(nicely) or create small group of "judges" to rank the lessons, I feel that if the same group of people are doing the ranking you would have a level of consistency in the rankings so forum members could apply the rank relative to their own ability.
Cheers
Mat

[hb]

Originally Posted by Clancy

Well that's got me confused. We were thinking more of allowing members to rank the lessons, so we want to keep it simple, but thanks for your input anyway Justapicker.

Any other ideas before I need to put my own brain to work here, which I'd really rather not do.

Clancy

I always relate to the famous quote ("Keep it simple, stupid!). This is how 90% of your readers will view it be able to relate to it. And yes, this includes me!
hb

[Lcjones]

hmmm, it was that

Clancy Level

that scared me off!

[Justapicker]

Originally Posted by Clancy

Well that's got me confused. We were thinking more of allowing members to rank the lessons, so we want to keep it simple, but thanks for your input anyway Justapicker.

Any other ideas before I need to put my own brain to work here, which I'd really rather not do.

Clancy

What's confusing? In the classical guitar world there is a standardized method of rating the difficulty of the repertoire.

IMO, something along those lines would be more useful than having the members judge their difficulty simply because someone who has been playing one month will rate a lesson "difficult", while someone who has played for one year might rate it as a "beginners piece".

The ratings really should come from the teacher. Who is the lesson designed for? What particular skill or skills is it trying to teach? What skills should one have mastered prior to beginning this lesson? Those are some of the questions I think need to be answered so that the self-guided student can choose things to work on that are appropriate to his/her skill level. It helps them avoid the " I can't play this so I must suck!" syndrome that comes from attempting songs they'd be better off trying in a year or two.

Clearer?

[carol m]

My grading would be:
Those I can almost do (preferably in private)
Those that I hope to do at some time in the future (hopefully before I die) and
In your dreams!!
but dreaming's good!

[Clancy]

Originally Posted by Justapicker

What's confusing? In the classical guitar world there is a standardized method of rating the difficulty of the repertoire.

IMO, something along those lines would be more useful than having the members judge their difficulty simply because someone who has been playing one month will rate a lesson "difficult", while someone who has played for one year might rate it as a "beginners piece".

The ratings really should come from the teacher. Who is the lesson designed for? What particular skill or skills is it trying to teach? What skills should one have mastered prior to beginning this lesson? Those are some of the questions I think need to be answered so that the self-guided student can choose things to work on that are appropriate to his/her skill level. It helps them avoid the " I can't play this so I must suck!" syndrome that comes from attempting songs they'd be better off trying in a year or two.

Clearer?

Well unfortunately in this case the rankings won't be coming from the teacher, so we are trying to find better way of showing the level of each lesson.

Maybe (as mattz196 suggested) a select group of members going through the lessons and giving the rankings might be the way to go... or even just one experienced person... Want to volunteer Justapicker?

Clancy

[coldethyl]

Originally Posted by Clancy

I think Novice and Beginner are almost the same though.

Clancy

Your right of course! I checked my home dictionary and clarified it for myself.
Here: (a person who is new to the circumstances, work, etc., in which he or she is placed; beginner; tyro: a novice in politics.)

What would be the next step up from a beginner then? Surely it wouldn't be intermediate.

[Fretsource]

As far as I remember, the classical grades (In the UK there are 8 not 9) were classified as:

Grade 1 = Beginner
Grade 2 = Elementary
Grade 3 = Can't remember
Grade 4 = Lower
Grade 5 = Higher
Grade 6 = Intermediate
Grade 7 = Advanced
Grade 8 = Final

I had a look at the website of the main exam org in the UK (and commonwealth countries) which is 'The Associated Board of the Royal schools of Music' (ABRSM) but they don't seem to use those names now as far as I can see. (I stopped teaching classical grades about 20 years ago).

All the exam requirements are there, though, for all the grades - if anyone can be bothered reading through them and trying to match classical levels to fingerstyle to try and grade Kirk's fingerstyle lessons.

Personally, I think just two are needed for our purposes: Beginner and Beyond.

[allthumbs]

I am firmly in the Can't Remeber phase of my playing. I graduated from the Used to Know phase years ago.

[Matty22]

Originally Posted by Clancy

Well unfortunately in this case the rankings won't be coming from the teacher, so we are trying to find better way of showing the level of each lesson.

Maybe (as mattz196 suggested) a select group of members going through the lessons and giving the rankings might be the way to go... or even just one experienced person... Want to volunteer Justapicker?

Clancy

Id be happy to help out with that Clancy if i can... But having only really mastered the first waltzing matilda lesson, and one basic picking pattern, my skill level would be somewhat of an extreme beginner...

But perhaps if i can figure a lesson out to a relative standard (say a few blunders, but generally pretty close) in a couple of hours then it would be classed as a beginners peice, if i cant, then it would be better suited to the person at the Intermediate stage, to go through and, if it takes an advanced picker 2 weeks to figure it out then its not for the faint of heart.

Having a set group of people would be beneficial too i think, because then the other viewers would get to thinking "ok so, matty thinks thats easy, well the last lesson he thought was easy i managed, so i should manage this". It gives a consistant person to compare to.....

That was probably a complete was of bandwidth there, but i tried to help

[Lcjones]

Hmmm,

Seems things are getting over analyzed and overthunk. I've never been accused of being able to do either. So as my old boss would say, give the job to the laziest fella, he'll fine the easiest way to get it done.

Ranking Lessons ... Users "Rate" lessons based on a scale of "1 to 5". Obviously, 1 being the easiest and 5, the most difficult. Have an option for user to Rate Lesson at the end of the lesson ...... Not a vote, not a poll, a "rating".

In vBB, a Rate Thread option is already available, however, the wording would not be correct. If this option could be changed specifically in the Lesson's Forum, to "Rate The Lesson" and given appropriate verbiage, then that would work just fine.

Now, some users may think a particular lesson is either more or less difficult. The premise being, that over time an average will ultimately be found. And I think that would work well. However, this could be skewed, as any rating or ranking system can be, if for example a more experienced user/player clicks though what could be consensually considered a "intermediate lesson" and deems it easier that it actually is. I'm pretty sure no one has the time to be the "Lessons Police", so it would have to be an honor system .....no matter which system is created.

And having caused mnyself to thunk about this, I now have a headache..... ack...I need an asburn.

**

[Justapicker]

Originally Posted by Clancy

Well unfortunately in this case the rankings won't be coming from the teacher, so we are trying to find better way of showing the level of each lesson.

Maybe (as mattz196 suggested) a select group of members going through the lessons and giving the rankings might be the way to go... or even just one experienced person... Want to volunteer Justapicker?

Clancy

I really wish I had the time! As it is, finding time to eat can be difficult some days....

[carol m]

Isn't it true that unless you are a complete beginner (say less than 3 months) you can pretty much see from the video or by trying a few bars whether you are going to be able to tackle a lesson or not? Therefore Beginner and Beyond would be enough. So if Matty wants to start a 'Matty thinks this one is OK for beginners - and he says he himself is a beginner, that would help the true beginners, and everyone else (eg not absolute beginners and up) would at least get an idea of the possibilities that lie ahead even if they are not yet at that level, and start to get a guitar 'education' on the way?
And besides, if there's a lesson with a tune that you really love but it's beyond your current level, you can learn heaps from really struggling with it even if it takes weeks, because you have the committment to it.

[papadog65]

Justapicker may have it down pretty close. Just before I read that post I was thinking about things like: 1 - How complex is the fingering of a chord (can I do that, or how long would it take to learn); 2 - How easy (or difficult) is it for someone to change from one chord to another ("easy" vs "hard" chords); 3 - the relative impossibility of "seeing" where melody notes fall within a series of chords (learning them by rote?); 4 - add double stops or more to #3; then add rhythmic patterns and syncopation?
Just some thoughts off the top of my head about this.