Capos and Keys

hb · #1 August 24th, 2006

I'm confused! While reading an article about capos, it described how a chord moved up a half step when placing the capo on the first fret, one full note on the second fret, etc., etc., this I understand. But then when describing what key the song was played in, they say that a song in "G" played with a capo on the fifth fret is now in "D" and a song that is in "C" and you put a capo on the fifth fret, you are now in "G". Am I not doing the math right or does it not work the same way with chords as it does with keys?
thanks in advance,
hb

WernHalen · #2 August 24th, 2006

HB I think you are right, if I count I get that a song played in C moved up 5 frets is now in F and a song from G would be in the key of C... That is if you still used the same chords after moving the capo of course...

skinnybloke · #3 August 24th, 2006

Classic example of "don't believe everything you read" .
Maybe whoever wrote the article counted on his fingers...C D E F G

cshude · #4 August 24th, 2006

I get the same as wern, and looks like skinny nailed the reason.

hb · #5 August 24th, 2006

I appreciate your answers, but I am totally confused now as I read another article from a guitar site and will quote" it below. I guess the basic question I am trying to ask is, does using a capo change the key the music is in, and if so, how? (Please give example.
thanks,
hb
following is the quote from the article:

"Example, song is in F with guitar capo'd at first fret - bass is in F#, right?

No. If the song is in F, the song is in F no matter where the capo is. If the song is in F and the guitar is capoed at the first fret, that just allows the guitar to play an E chord instead of a barred F chord. Now the guitard could be capoing the first fret and playing an F# chord in the key of F#, but that would be pretty silly. Bottom line - pay no attention to the capo; know which key you're in."

Fretsource · #6 August 24th, 2006

Ok - I see what they're saying.

But first - a simple fact.
If you play a song and then put a capo on and play the SAME chord shapes - the key will definitely change. It will change by one half step per fret.

What they are saying is that if you put a capo on and want the key to NOT change, then you will have to change the chord shape accordingly

For example: You want to play a 12 bar blues song in the key of F because you can sing the song well in that key. So you start off with the chord F and whichever other chords follow.
But then you decide that F is too difficult for you to hold. So you put a capo on the first fret, and play an E chord , which you can do easily. It looks like your playing a blues in E now, but really you're still playing it in F because the capo is automatically converting it back to F. The capo is just like your index finger - converting your E chord to an F chord - or any major chord depending where you want to place the capo.

hb · #7 August 24th, 2006

Quote:
"If you play a song and then put a capo on and play the SAME chord shapes - the key will definitely change. It will change by one half step per fret."

Thanks....That's what was confusing....I didn't realize one was talking about changing chord shapes with a capo and another was talking about playing the same chord shapes with the capo.
So is it right to say that without changing chord shapes and a piece of music is written in the key of "C" and you put a capo on the fifth fret, you are now playing the song in the key of "F"?
Sorry so stupid!
hb

Fretsource · #8 August 24th, 2006

Yep - That's right - exactly as Wern, Skinny and Chris said.
And you're not being stupid - it sounds like that site could have explained it a bit more clearly.

hb · #9 August 24th, 2006

Thanks. Can I post a site for you to look at regarding this or would this not be proper?
hb

Fretsource · #10 August 25th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by hb

Thanks. Can I post a site for you to look at regarding this or would this not be proper?
hb

Sure, post it if you like. I'm not sure what you want me to do, though. But I'll take a look.

hb · #11 August 25th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fretsource

Sure, post it if you like. I'm not sure what you want me to do, though. But I'll take a look.

http://www.guitarnoise.com/article.php?id=2

I think that from the discussion we've had on this subject, I have a little better grasp as to what he is saying,(the part he is trying to relay that lays directly beneath the chord chart), but it's still very unclear as to grasping how he comes to the key he is in.
Anyway, if you can explain it to me, I would appreciate it, but it's nothing that's life-changing to me, so don't go to too much work!
thanks a bunch!
hb

Fretsource · #12 August 25th, 2006

I see what he's saying. His example (Mrs Robinson) is similar to my example about the blues in F

The song "Mrs Robinson" is in Bb, which contains nasty chords that he wants to avoid. So he puts a capo on the third fret and changes the chords to start on the G shape. It LOOKS like he is now playing in G because his fingers are holding a simple G chord. But the capo converts his G to Bb - so really he is still playing in Bb.

It LOOKS like G but it SOUNDS like Bb.

The true key is the one that it SOUNDS like, not the one it LOOKS like. Here's the confusing bit. When he says "I am now playing in the key of G" he means as far as the chord shapes go, it looks like he's playing in the key of G and he'll think of it as being in G - but really (sound wise) he's actually playing it in Bb. If he records the song and posts it - EVERYONE will hear that it's in the key of Bb. Nobody knows (or cares) that he's actually fingering a G shape with a capo at the third fret.

hb · #13 August 25th, 2006

Thanks for making that so clear to me! I understand now.
thanks,
hb