[nagukush]

Hi All

One of the main problems that I've figured out, If I start teaching Guitar here is that I have to teach a few of the Simple Local-songs initially, to bring interest (as the English songs we know and play are'nt popular here and noone even knows about them) So I cant teach them the songs that I love to play. For this I've tried to figure out a solution (I'm really sorry If I'm wrong) Kindly suggest me :

I plan to learn the Notes of the A-Major scale (For Example) all over the fretboard and then taking a few basic example songs (In A Maj) I'd try to figure them out by ear, using the A-Maj notes that I had learnt. I plan this because Tabs for the local songs are'nt popular on the Net too ! and I guess I'd have to learn them first before I can initiate any interest in people.

Kindly advice me whether this is ok, I'm really not sure if the above makes any sense (Musically)

Lots of Regards and Care
Kush

[Jim]

Originally Posted by nagukush

I understand the term "TRANSPOSING" as for example : Playing a Song of C-Major in G-Major. Thus Transposing means : playing a Song of a Maj-Scale in another Maj-Scale. Am I right, Pal ??? So here its simple as both ('to' and 'from' are major scales) and the song easily fits into the notes of the other. Rite ?

But when I go from a Minor scale to a Major (I understand that the feel would change to a bit "Happier") but How is "TRANSPOSING" done here ??? I hope I'm not sounding senseless here, but this is all I know of Scales and Theory (and I'm ashamed of this fact ) So How is Transposing done in this case ?

It's no problem Kush - I'm happy to share this information (I majored in music composition in college). Yes, you're correct that transposing from one major to another is just "to" and "from", shifting all the notes/chords by the same intervals that differentiate the keys (C -> G everything goes up a 5th). Same for minor to minor.

It's not that straight-forward taking a song from a major to a minor, or visa versa. Many songs will not sound good even if it is done well. This is really not so much transposing as re-composing the song -- you will have to work on it chord by chord to see what you want to have the minor "feel" and what the "major" feel. I doubt there would be many - if any - songs in which all the chords could just shift from major to minor and still sound good, or even recognizable. Usually, you would want to start/end the song in either major or minor, depending on what feel you wanted it to have, but besides that, some chords would remain as in the original song, some would change to the parallel/relative minor, some might change to different chords altogther. It really is re-writing the song at that point.

More likely you would just want to perhaps replace some major chords with their relative minor, in selected places in the song, to change the feel of it. See Kirk's lesson on "Knockin' on Heaven's Door" - the ending of the verses alternate between ending on Am and C - usually C is used on the last line of the verse to give it a more "finished" feeling.

| G - - - | D - - - | Am - - - | - - - - | G - - - | D - - - | C - - - | - - - - | ... keep repeating.

See True beginner? Here's a lesson for you!

Jim

[nagukush]

Originally Posted by allthumbs

When you get into P.T. Kush, you will find that transposing is fairly simple.
I am not sure I understand your question. You can transpose minor keys to other minor keys which will leave the feel of the song intact since the intervals will be the same in what ever key you chose. To transpose a minor to a major means the b3 has to be raised to a 3. That will completely change the feel of the tune. Just compare an Am to an A chord to hear the difference. Not necessarily a bad thing to do and is quite common in song construction, majorizing or minorizing a chord but, for accuracy in transposing you need to keep the same intervals intact in each key.

Hi Marty !!!!

I'm really, eagerly waiting for my PT DVD and I plan to depend on it for everything ! I know I can become better, If I use it fully !!! Thanks for caring, Pal !

Thanks for the explanation Buddy !!! I guess I understand things a bit now (which really makes me so happy !!!! Though I know that I'm not good at theory and have a long way to go, Having started it just makes me feel more matured and happy)

Thanks again for all the Care
Warmest regards
Kush

[nagukush]

Hey Jim !!!

You're really very Kind and helpful (as everybody else is , in our wonderful Family )

I think I understand that. So I've to keep the Major Songs into Major and etc.

I really wanted to know this because, even If I start to teach people here locally (who'rent familiar with the western songs) I guess I'd have to make them play some of their favourite tunes as melodies (even though If I dont include chords, I'll just make them play the melody (notes) of the song initially)

I think the main problem I'd have to face is to find whether their favourite song is in Major or Minor, If I'd be able to do that, then I can teach them the same in a single Scale (maj or Minor) or tab it for them in that Key (which I taught them). I guess this will defintely make me learn a lot as I'm just starting on theory.

Is there any way to know whether a song is Major or Minor ? From what I feel is songs like "RHYMES" are happy and Gay and so they must be in Major Category, Right ???

Anyways thanks for all the care. . I've really learnt something useful here and I owe it you Pal !

Thanks again
Regd
Kush

[Jim]

Originally Posted by nagukush

Is there any way to know whether a song is Major or Minor ? From what I feel is songs like "RHYMES" are happy and Gay and so they must be in Major Category, Right ???

One really easy way to tell if a song is in a major or minor key is to find out what the first and last chord of the song are. Usually - not 100% but frequently - the open and closing chords will be the key of the song (if a song starts on a G major chord and ends on a G major chord, it's probably in G major... and the same for minor keys). Sometimes a song will change keys (modulate to another key, maybe even from major to minor or visa versa) in the middle and then come back to the original key at the end - but the first thing to do is to look at the start and end of the song.

Also look at this thread:

http://www.guitarforbeginners.com/fo...5606#post25606

and look at Kirk's answer:

...first of all, there are 12 keys in all, not 6! Sorry about that!

Here are the most guitar-friendly keys:

G: G - Am - Bm - C - D - Em - F#dim
A: A - Bm - C#m - D - E - F#m - Gdim
C: C - Dm - Em - F - G - Am - Bdim
D: D - Em - F#m - G - A - Bm - C#dim
E: E - F#m - G#m - A - B - C#m - D#dim

They can all be written as: I - ii - iii - IV -V -vi -vii

You can use this as a guide - see which of the chords listed are in your song, and most likely - especially in popular music - you'll find some of these chords in the song (especially the I, IV and V chords) and the key at the left is your likely key based on the chords you find.

Plane Talk will help you a LOT. I bought it about 6 months ago, and it's priceless!

Jim

[Jim]

ALSO - if you haven't read Kirk's "The Key, the scale and the Related Chords" do so!

It's at:

The Key, the scale and the Related Chords


Jim

[nagukush]

Hi Jim

Thanks again for that

G: G - Am - Bm - C - D - Em - F#dim
A: A - Bm - C#m - D - E - F#m - Gdim
C: C - Dm - Em - F - G - Am - Bdim
D: D - Em - F#m - G - A - Bm - C#dim
E: E - F#m - G#m - A - B - C#m - D#dim

So do I have to learn and memorize the above chords to be able to play in that particular Key ? I think Plane-Talk will take care of that, True ?

and If I may ask one more thing, I've always wondered about this statment "Regd the starting and ending chord of a song to indentify its key", but not all songs start with a Guitar-Chord and or not everysong has Guitar-Accompaniment in it. So how does one find which Chord its starting and ending ? Does it depend on the "Ear-Training" of Chords (also with different instruments).

I hope I'm not being very kiddish or foolsh with my doubts

Regds
Kush

[Jim]

Originally Posted by nagukush

So do I have to learn and memorize the above chords to be able to play in that particular Key ? I think Plane-Talk will take care of that, True ?

Yes - Plane Talk will give you the help you need on this matter!

Originally Posted by nagukush

and If I may ask one more thing, I've always wondered about this statment "Regd the starting and ending chord of a song to indentify its key", but not all songs start with a Guitar-Chord and or not everysong has Guitar-Accompaniment in it. So how does one find which Chord its starting and ending ? Does it depend on the "Ear-Training" of Chords (also with different instruments).

Look for the chords that are used most frequently (and are used on accented beats [often beats 1 and 3 in 4/4 time for example] of measures) - and the "family" of chords, and thus the key, will become evident. Once you get a feeling for it, you'll know which chords are the I, IV and V in popular music, and knowing that, you'll know the key. Plane Talk helps with this too.

Originally Posted by nagukush

I hope I'm not being very kiddish or foolsh with my doubts

Not at all Pal! These are all questions musician's have at some point, and either you get them answered or you wonder about them... it's better to get the answer!

Jim

[nagukush]

Thankyou so much Jim !!! You're really very Kind and and a True-Buddy !!!!
If I may say, "God Bless You"

My only dream in life is to be Better Guitarist, but I guess I tend to be a bit lazy sometimes in chasing my Dreams and achieving . I'm sure with friends like you and a Family like Ours, I will be able achieve something in Life.

Thanks again Jim (Truly from the heart !!!)

Lots of Regards and Care
Kush

[Jim]

You're welcome Kush.

May we all achieve our dreams!

Jim

[allthumbs]

Your doing a great job helping Kush, Jim. Thanks for all the effort. I am sure other members will benefit from this thread as well.

[Jim]

No problem- I'm happy to do it!

Kirk's lesson on "The Music Building" is also an excellent resource in this area of keys.

The Music Building

Jim

[USGold]

I keep forgetting that you come from a culture that doesn't share ours' musical history.-If you had come from a western cultural background, you might be expected to know that a chord is made up from three or more individual notes-much the way they would be played on a piano--experienced players are usually able to determine chords by "note reading " the music. You need not memorize the chords to play in any particular key-but as a guitar player you will need to memorize chord shapes---since you have been concentrating on picking style-think of the chord shapes as three or more fingers played all at one time. Kush good luck and talk this one over with Kirk or another expert here--I am just hacker at this stuff.

[arachnoid]

does indian music use the same scale as 'Western' music?

I had a feeling that in western music we divide an octave (doubling of frequency) into 12 equal divisions, but that indian music uses, i think seven divisions and i'm not even sure that is for what we would call an octave.

I may be way off the mark here, i'm just remembering stuff from a physics lesson in the dim and distant past.

Russ

[tcliff]

Originally Posted by nagukush

Hi All

One of the main problems that I've figured out, If I start teaching Guitar here is that I have to teach a few of the Simple Local-songs initially....Kush

Hi Kush,

I have no idea if this will help you in the least....but I came across a forum of Indian guitar players. If they don't have tabs for the music you're looking for, maybe someone in the forum can advise you further as to how to obtain them.

The link is here: http://www.indianguitartabs.com/showthread.php?t=11006

Hope it's of any help,

Tom C

[Blueslover72209]

First thing that came to mind was SRV's "Mary Had A Little Lamb"? LOL!!

Stan

Originally Posted by nowhere-man

In Western countries, nursery rhymes are generally very well known, and simple. (Note to self: must try some then!)

Geoff