[UncleTupelo]

Hello,

Really like the lesson. As I become a (marginally) better guitar player I am finding the theory side of things more and more interesting as the muscle memory side of things begins to happen intuitively.

Anyway, I have a question about the theory side of the and especially the initial section, as Kirk writes:

The whole thing starts on a strummed I chord, which is a good way of establishing to the ear the key center. From there it moves up semitones in 'tenths'.

So we are in the Key of E which consists of the notes from the E Major Scale:

E F# G# A B C# D# E

and we start with the strummed E, which (having read planetalk!) I know consists of the E (I), G# (III) and B (V) of the E Major Scale. All good.

But then we move up semitones in tenths:



The first semitone move (the F# - second fret on low E String - and the A - the second fret of G String) makes sense. Both notes are in the E Major Scale and counting along I can see that A is ten steps from the F#.

The next semitone move though seems to take us out of the E Major Scale (the G - third fret on low E String - and the A# - the third fret of G String) . Neither G or A# are in the E Major scale, although I can see that they are 'tenths' apart.

The last semitone move fits within the E Major Scale (G# and B).

So my question is - how come this second semitone move sounds ok. How do you decide when and if to move outside of notes in a key?

Cheers

Mat

[Kirk Lorange]

Hi, Mat.

The simple answer is: songs don't have to stay in key to sound good, in fact moving out of key is the best way to keep the listener interested. So, yes, it moves out of key once, then back in, them out again, then back in again. The fact that it does move away from E a couple of times doesn't mean it's not in E ... it returns home after a couple of detours and we're all the more satisfied for it.

You could flesh those tenths out and make a chord of each:

E > B7/F# > Gdim > E7/G#

[UncleTupelo]

Thank you Kirk The problem is probably that I am being too rigid when thinking about keys and scales. The theory side of this is relatively new to me and I still have a lot to learn!

I need to just try stuff out when noodling away without worrying too much about the 'rules'.

Once again thanks for the great learning resource this and the planetalk site provide. Really appreciated.

[UncleTupelo]

Hello Again.

I have another question on the theory side of things (this time to do with the G diminished chord). I hope this is ok to post here.

In the Daydream Blues piece Kirk writes that:

So, after going up in tenths, we come back down with those tenths still intact, but with an extra note added in between. Now we've made a couple of chords: Gdim and B7.

As far as I know diminished chords consist of the root note (in this case G) a Minor Third Interval and another Minor Third interval. So knowing the G scale (from the circle of fifths or from the TTsTTTs pattern) has just one sharp (F#) we have:



So I would guess then that the G dim consists of G (the root), Bb (the major third is B so lower this by a semitone), and Db (a minor third from Bb). But when I look at the G dim triad in the Daydream Blues piece:



It seems to consist of G (third fret on low E String), E (second fret on D String) and Bb (third fret on the G String).

So I suppose my question is where has the E note (second fret on D String) come from? I can see that if I count up another minor third from Db I do get to an E note.

I looked on the internet and it seems that the G dim chord does contain E (well Fb) in the example below.



But I am confused as the G dim chord in the example above seems to be an extended chord (it has 4 notes).

Can anyone clear the G dim mystery up for me please

Cheers

Mat

[allthumbs]

You may be getting confused between a half diminished and a full diminished chord.
Half-diminished seventh chord - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Diminished seventh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Fretsource]

I think the confusion comes from the diminished chord and the diminished 7th chord.

G dim = G Bb Db . It's a triad composed of 2 minor thirds.
G dim7 = G Bb Db Fb (=E) It's composed of 3 minor 3rds.

Diminished 7ths are far more common and useful than simple diminished triads so they often just get called diminished.

[UncleTupelo]

Thanks for the replys. Makes a bit more sense.

Just found and read through Fretsource's very good lesson on
Intervals, well worth a read.