[starsailor]

This is quite a melancholy short song I've written, see it as a folk song, I've put the verses in but there's no chorus as it's a narrative and the verses lead into each other the short verses I see as low key and slower and the long verses are more upbeat and lively, just a bit of an experiment, lyrical/poetry, all feedback welcome as usual, if someone would like to do this feel free

Echoes in time

Verse 1

There is a music store in a shady part of town
Guitars in the window could do with a dusting down
Run by and old man who used to be somebody
A flower child dependant on memories

Verse 2

His shop used to be the talk of the town
The finest guitars for miles around
All the big names would come from afar
Some just to hangout, get that special guitar
The scene was so vibrant, jam sessions upstairs
And pretty young girls with flowers in their hair
Now the girls are all Women the flowers have died
The stars have all faded their guitars put aside
The old man goes in turns round the open sign
But the music has gone it's just echoes in time

Verse 3

He goes to the window wipes a hole between closing down
To watch out for customers and have a good look around
Sees a desolate wasteland, some tramps drinking cheap whisky
His mind starts to drift as he retreats to a place in his memory

Verse 4

The street used to be such a colourful sight
Street markets and carnivals, full of life in the night
Poets and singers would busk and get high
As young girls passed by with their Mary Quant looks
Serious young men with fire in their eyes
Would sip coffee in cafes while reading Kerouac books
Now their ideals have gone, the revolution died
The fire diminished as they faced up to real life
The old man walks over turns round the closed sign
Hears the sound of the street but it's just echoes in time

End

He sits in the back room and plays an old folk guitar
Feels quite tired just sits and strums Jennifer
Then closes his eyes and lays back in his easy chair
Joins Hendrix and Joplin, once again he's a rising star

cgoodesongs 24-2-08

[starsailor]

Originally Posted by X4StringDrive

Well Chris, this looks good but...I have to repeat myself from another post, I think it's quite long. Now I understand that the arrangement could make short work of it, but I can't see telling the story with emotion at the pace it would require to keep it reasonable in length. It's a very good story IMO. One thing I've noticed is the structure of some of these you've posted. They seem quite original I'll say and leave it at that. Myself, I tend to set a cadence with the syllables as they seem to flow better...again IMO. Maybe it's our different backgrounds and cultures, who knows? I think you have a talent for telling a story in your lyrics and I enjoy them all, I think{I'm doing that alot today, no wonder my head hurts..lol} if you can tighten up the structure, say what you want with less lines/words there would be no stopping you. Yes I know the nature of how it's put to music is the tell all of if it works or not, but thats what you get for asking me what I think.{LOL}

Heres a take on how I would do this if I had had the original thought.....I may regret this, but...what do you think?



Echoes in time (X4rewrite)

The music store still stands on the south side of town
Guitars in the window could use a dusting down
Cared for by an old man who once was somebody
A flower child dependent on his memories

His little shop at one time was the talk of town
He stocked the finest guitars for miles all around
Well known big name players would travel from afar
just to hangout with him, and watch him make guitars

The old man hesitates
As he flips the open sign
Now the music has all gone
it's just echoes left in time

The store was once so vibrant, jam sessions would flare
Attracted pretty girls with flowers in their hair
Girls are now grown women the flowers have all died
Stars have gone and faded their guitars put aside

He stares at the window painted words of closed down
pauses for a moment takes one last look around
like those days of yesteryear once again he's free
As his mind drifts off to a place in memory

The old man hesitates
As he flips the open sign
Now the music has all gone
it's just echoes left in time

found him in the back room clutching an old guitar
now he's on his own tour amongst the other stars
Music life was good to him, like an easy chair
Now he's joined the others he knows he's welcome there

Now I think of that old man
When I see an open sign
How the music has all gone
it's just echoes left in time

Hi Kenny,

It's kind of cool really we've got two songs for the price of one, I don't think we have a clash of cultures here, we'd have to know more about each other to see if it was backgrounds, I kind of do like to tell stories so I'd put my hands up to that one.
I think there's a clash of styles in relation to this song though. The original is telling a story about the old guy, the short verses are observational looking at the present with the writer describing a guy he knows or knows of and the longer verses put the writer in the subjects shoes in remembering the old days so are more descriptive, it's really like anyone sharing a memory, people wouldn't say do you remember our wedding day and say yeah that was nice, they'd elaborate a bit more, so in this song the writer is the observer and also the subject if that makes sense.
In your song the writer sticks to being the observer, describing the scene and giving an opinion so it's coming from a different angle.
The original I really don't think is that long like you said you can't really tell how long it will be until the arrangements done but this song doesn't have a chorus, there won't be any big breaks in it, it's just a short story with a slow tune where you stroll from the short verse to the long one, if it had a chorus and some breaks I'd agree it would be too long.
Your song still tells the story and has 40 less words so it is shorter, it could also be played at a faster pace without losing the message also it's not as constricting as mine so musically there's more room to play with, you can have more chord changes and put some breaks in, if that was done I think both songs would be similar lengths.
So I think both songs work but in different ways and your version works well with that chorus
There is one question I must ask though, what's wrong with a song being long? I think pop songs have to be short as they have to get peoples attention but I think a song can be longer and give the listener a chance to sit down and listen to a story. I'd agree that a long song always runs the risk of meandering and losing the audience but they do work, Arlo Guthries Alices Restaurant is 20 minutes long and I agree is a story but it works, I think if a writer decides every song has to be short then they're creating a straightjacket for themselves but it does depend on which audience you're aiming at

Best Wishes

Chris

[eddiez152]

starsailor,

Nice writing and story line. I like it. As always modification are to the eye of the beholder. Never hurts to get other opinions.

[starsailor]

Originally Posted by carol m

That's interesting Kenny because I see you are assuming the old man died. I was about to ask Chris if that's what he meant, or if the old man was just dreaming about the old days and the music. You have to make the extra assumption that the fact that those two are both dead is the whole 'point' to interpret it that way.

Mind you, a bit of ambiguity in a song can make it a talking point among the fans when you are rich and famous so its not necessarily a bad thing to have two possible meanings.

Hi Carol with the original ending I was saying the guy was dead but at the same time it can be ambiguous, the rewrite leaves the ending more open, I actually prefer that ending, I think it's good if you can give the listener a chance to make their own minds up, if you had to stop for a minute and think is the guy dead or is he asleep and having a nice dream then I'm getting somewhere because you're not just reading and saying that was nice or that was awful you're actually engaging with the song which I would want an audience to do, mind you the end verse also has him lighting a cigar and either dying or falling asleep so another way to go is the shop burning down which is quite a poetic ending, thanks for asking that question Carol made me think a bit

[starsailor]

Originally Posted by eddiez152

starsailor,

Nice writing and story line. I like it. As always modification are to the eye of the beholder. Never hurts to get other opinions.

Thanks Eddiez for those comments, pleased you like it, I try to invite feedback good or bad , I'm close to my songs but I also want them to be good so this forums strength is that it gives you the opportunity to create better songs that's why it's so important. I also can't resist a good discussion, my opinions aren't always right but it's good fun sharing them if I get the opportunity

[eddiez152]

starsailor,
You have some good points, only feedback has its setbacks.

[X4StringDrive]

Hey Chris, I have to agree more with you after giving your reply some thought. Lately I've been drifting to the commercial side of writing more than the expression side you might say. Length is not a determining factor as you say when its directed at a particular or for that matter no particular audience. I too love a good long song!

My rewrite and thoughts were more directed at{I hope} your offer to let folks have a go at it if they wish{very generous of you btw} to put it/them to tune. I just personally thought that your style of writing as presented would be better suited to your style of presentation in song to give it the justice it deserves. I think a story such as this would be hard to convey in a manner you intended for anyone else to attempt. Thats a good thing.

Hope I'm making some sort of sense with this. Its similiar to your ending in this, as each has their own take which is cool and intended, however only you know what you intended. My attempt at a rewrite was simply to make it more generic so to speak and was by no means an attempt to say whats right or wrong. Back to the length comments, I think now after rereading, it may just seem long at first because of the time I take trying to interpret your message while reading at the same time and placing it with-in my limited knowledge of structure and form.

Bottom line...........glad I don't have to make a living at thinking.....Keep em coming!

[eddiez152]

There are many different justices. The the author probably knows best at what he is looking for. And not in all cases.
Now you may want to be aware of the fact that many writers have no clue as to what the lyric may bring in a song. The vocal artist or musician may want to tackle a lyric and put some great music to it.
It is done quite frequently in the music business. And the styles may vary greatly form artist to artist. I am pretty sure they are capable of giving your lyric the justice that it deserves.
We would not want to short change you or the artist now would we. Oh lets not forget the producer either. Of corse this would apply to the commercial side of music.
Conveying the message in the lyric can be done by anyone as the lyric sets the tone. One would not set it up as a tune to whistle to. And it sure ain't no polka.

[knight46]

Chris,
This is a great story song, lyrics tell a story with great emotion. I believe that if you think the old man died or was just remembering the old days is not really important, they both convey the emotion and that is what counts. There have been a lot of songs with seemingly obscure meaning (American Pie for example) that grow because of the different interpretations. Just for reference I think he died.

[windsong]

Echoes in time's title is very catchy and goes very well with the lyrics. The lyrics truly showed a depression of sprits. I liked it.

[starsailor]

Thanks for all the comments Eddie and Kenny, kind of a lot to take on board, but it's all been taken in and I'll see if I can write a few snappy ones it's either that or a concept album I might leave that open ended Knight just in case I do a sequel might put him in an old peoples home: mind you if that cigar doesn't go out I'll have to do a cover of Ashes to Ashes lol: hey Windsong that's one of my better titles, I was trying to mix the low spirits of the present with the high spirits of the past and trying to emphasize the loneliness of the guy (I'm turning into my Drama Teacher) so I'm pleased you picked up on that Windsong it's hard to project what you're feel for the song is without a melody, thanks all for having a look

[carol m]

Well guys (no gals yet) I reckon so far, we have at least 3 songs here: Chris, Kenny and Eddie, and maybe Knight? My idea of a successful posting of lyrics on the site would be 10 different versions/tunes all based on the original. That would be very interesting to hear, and to learn from, and the 10 can be put out on a CD! How is that as a plan/homework???

[starsailor]

Originally Posted by carol m

Well guys (no gals yet) I reckon so far, we have at least 3 songs here: Chris, Kenny and Eddie, and maybe Knight? My idea of a successful posting of lyrics on the site would be 10 different versions/tunes all based on the original. That would be very interesting to hear, and to learn from, and the 10 can be put out on a CD! How is that as a plan/homework???

Thanks Gals, I would never forget you Carol, it would be interesting to see how many ways you could write or do the same song, a lot of the Dance groups do remixes of the same song so it is possible, and it's been done with covers but they usually stick to the same tune just do variations so writing the same song and using a different tune and structure is an interesting idea