[carol m]

I have always loved harmony in songs and often try to sing harmony to the music I hear. Some harmonies are really obvious and I think these are the sort of harmonies that are often found in hymns (I'm guessing). I think these are probably the thirds or fifths mostly and can be found by picking out chord tones within the chord etc.

But.......there are some songs, singers or groups where the harmony is 'closer' or in some way different. I remember people remarking on how the Beatles used new and interesting harmonies in many of their songs. Also the Bee Gees, CSNY, or even The Beach Boys.

Also, how do you /hear/find/think of interesting chord/harmonies for example that great F#minor at the end of the easy Silent Night or the A7/C# in the Classical Finger Waltz lesson? These are the sort of touches that makes the music interesting and different. Are there any basic ways to find these chords/harmonies, or does it only come with years of playing and listening to music?

I would really like to have a better understanding of various harmonies and how to make/sing/hear/understand different harmonies in vocals. I realise this can be a life-long study, but I don't have a whole life time left, so a few pointers would be great.

[carol m]

Kirk - You had the right one first time (Classical Finger Waltz). I think Fong explained the "I chose to stick to the I-IV-V chords: A G A7 D" for a song in the key of G - he says it is the I-IV-V of D you are referring to, (not of G).

And the bass line progression + that C# was outstanding - a small touch but it makes all the difference. My ears are still stuck with the 'normal' and expected progression when I doodle, but I live in hope that creativity will happen one day. It's by listening and playing to pieces (even small pieces like this) and getting a surprise and finding out why is the best way to learn how. Thanks as always.

Thanks for the consideration in the spelling, but I can usually kope with a fair range of spelling - my komputer kopes less well

Sir Amos - I still have to tackle your epic post, but I will!

[Kirk Lorange]

Now I'm confused. I thought you said it was the one in the key of G ...

[carol m]

It's this one Classical Finger Waltz at bar 5 and 13. If this isn't in G I think I'll retire!

Uh-Oh.......where did I get that quote from?????? It seems to have disappeared! It must have been from a different lesson. I'll do some research and track it down.

[carol m]

I was just about to give up - I couldn't find a lesson where you said
"I chose to stick to the I-IV-V chords: A G A7 D" anywhere
...and then I found it. It's in your post above (No 4) in this thread.

I need to concentrate more!

[Fong]

Originally Posted by carol m

I was just about to give up - I couldn't find a lesson where you said
"I chose to stick to the I-IV-V chords: A G A7 D" anywhere
...and then I found it. It's in your post above (No 4) in this thread.

I need to concentrate more!

I think I threw in a fair amount of confusion there.

Kirk said the song was in the Key of G then spoke of the I IV V chords, which are not A G A D in the Key of G, since A is clearly the II of the Key of G and it would require a C to be the IV which isn't there.

Since that was the case, I looked for a key with G A D as the First, Fourth and Fifth chords. That was the Key of D. Which also happened to the be the Fifth of G.

Which made me think he had used the Fifth to transfer through a Key change as this is a common tool in music.

My fault. Since I didn't really look at the lesson and was just trying to make sense of what Kirk said.

I don't understand why it is A G A D and the I-IV-V of the Key of G though.

[carol m]

Originally Posted by Fong

Kirk said the song was in the Key of G then spoke of the I IV V chords, which are not A G A D in the Key of G, since A is clearly the II of the Key of G and it would require a C to be the IV which isn't there.

Since that was the case, I looked for a key with G A D as the First, Fourth and Fifth chords. That was the Key of D. Which also happened to the be the Fifth of G.

Which made me think he had used the Fifth to transfer through a Key change as this is a common tool in music.

I don't understand why it is A G A D and the I-IV-V of the Key of G though.

Hi Fong, I did that same deduction - that he had to be referring to a Lesson in the Key of D which is why I went back searching his lessons but couldn't find the quote or the lesson- had me double confused until I realised that quote was from the post in this thread!....

But that "I don't understand why it is A G A D and the I-IV-V of the Key of G though" is the original query I had in the first place (I think)

[Ben_Sir_Amos]

Carol

I think Kirk is talking about the run up and you are talking about the chords.

Play along with the finger waltz and strum
| G / / | C / / | G / / | A7 / / | G / / | D / / | G
while Kirk is playing the bass line that goes
| G / / | A / / | B / / | C# / / | D / / | D / / | G

That works and uses I, IV, and V in the key of G (that's what he says it is in in the lesson) with the addition of an A7/C#.

Elsewhere he discusses the different chords he could have used for the progression but he chose the simplest. In fact, I think he says he chose to substitute an Am for the C (i.e. use the relative minor (ii) of the IV chord), but to me it is just a C with an A in the bass. The important bit that you were asking about was the use of a C# to give some harmonic 'tension'. The C# fits in with the rising bass progression but is not in the key of G. So it fits and doesn't fit at the same time. That's the type of feature you need to work on to get the kind of harmonies you want, I think.

[carol m]

Thanks for that BenSirAmos. "use the relative minor (ii) of the IV chord" yes, that's what it must be. I hadn't thought of it like that before.

I haven't forgotten your post at the start of this thread. I'll tackle it tomorrow hopefully (its already late here) and I'm sure I'll have a question or two.