Soloing - Choosing the right notes - Page 2

Dugal · January 30th, 2006

Hi everyone,

I am interested in soloing techniques - or rather I should say choosing appropriate notes to solo over chords. If tell everyone what I've learnt, would you mind correcting/adding to them and or sharing your own strategies.

I know following the melody sounds good.

I know that chord tones sound ok always.

I know scale tones sound ok most of the time. On this, I noted that Clapton sometimes uses the relative minor (vi) scale with flat sevens instead of the I scale. Has anyone noted other scales being used for soloing? I realise there is a similarity between vi and I scales.

I know chromatic notes can add certain tensions/feelings e.g. sharp fives for a "latin" feel, flat sevens for "bluesy" feel, flat threes for a sort of "lament/reflective" feel.

So what techniques do you all find work? Do you follow the chords around or move around in a scale (if so which?) or follow the melody? Any other techniques?

Thanks so much to anyone who replies. I find soloing curious and would love to know how fellow guitar players do it.

Dugal

allthumbs · #16 February 5th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldethyl

Please forgive my dumb question if it sounds that way BUT:

Wouldn't improvising with chordal tones end up sounding just like arpeggios though?

You don't play with just the chord tones. They are the center around which you add non chord notes. If I am playing an improv, I will hit what ever notes sound good to my ears,but keep in mind that the strongest notes in a melody are usualy chord tones so I make sure I stay grounded in the melody.
It doesn't matter if there are outside chords from another key or the tune changes key a couple of times. Following the chords always takes you where the tune goes.

coldethyl · #17 February 5th, 2006

I've gotta get myself PT! Then I might understand a bit better because at the moment, it all seems like "gobble de gook"

I have tried to improvise using the chords but it just ends up sounding like an arpeggio.
I must be doing something wrong!

allthumbs · #18 February 5th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldethyl

I've gotta get myself PT! Then I might understand a bit better because at the moment, it all seems like "gobble de gook"

I have tried to improvise using the chords but it just ends up sounding like an arpeggio.
I must be doing something wrong!

Once you have the book and DVD you will slap yourself up the side of your head and say of course,why didn't I think of that. You will then laugh yourself silly for the next couple of months while you practice P.T.

Neilsonite · #19 February 6th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dugal

My query with creating melodies from the chord of the moment is that not all notes from these chords will be in the key of the song. i.e. the melody will probably be out of key.

I guess this is already the case in blues (flat threes), but in the blues I've found that singers sing the flat threes of the one chord not the COTM.

So this is where my confusion lies for soloing with the COTM.

What I want to do is a big table of a key's chord notes and then see where the overlap is, so I can know which notes of non-I chords are part of the I chord scale.

Hi, the quick answer is this: the chord tones are always in key.

By definition, if you are playing in one key, your harmony (i.e. chords) and melody all come from that key. In the key of C Major, C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am, and Bdim consist entirely of notes from the C major scale.

If you are adding non-diatonic notes with a particular chord (like is done in blues), then your chord of the moment shows you the good notes over that non-diatonic section.

Hope that clarifies, if not, you may want to ask over at the PT forum...
James

Dugal · #20 February 6th, 2006

James, thanks. Your answer saved me from doing that table. So all the 1 3 5 notes are in the I key. Problem solved. I Think.

Ta.

stratwrassler · #21 March 7th, 2006

Just play the notes that sound like what you want to hear.

The hard part is discovering what you want to hear, and getting your fingers to play it.

I'm with Kirk and the Chord Tones Rule Gang. That doesn't mean scales are not useful. I use scaler runs to connect my other ideas.

If your chord tones sound like arpeggios all the time, try simplifying. Just pick a couple of chord tones and milk all the phrases you can out of them. Bend/slide/hammer-on/pull-off, run a quick scale between them now and then.

I can play a solo over a 12 bar blues just using 2 notes. It's note spectactular technique wise, but I think it sounds musical. I play mostly blues, but these concepts can be used with any chords.

Start with the root of the I chord. I'll use A for example.

Over the I chord, it's the root (duh). Over the IV chord, it's the 5th. Don't forget to use bends, slides etc. to put some expression into it. Play the heck outta that note.

When you get to the V chord (E in this case), slide up to a B note. That's the 5th of this chord. Play it till you get back to the IV chord.

That's just one example. You can do the same thing with and E and D note. E is the 5th of the A7 chord, and D is the I of the D7 chord, and the 7th of the E7 chord.

See if you can find other 2 or three note combo's of notes that work over the 3 chords.

After a while (in my case many years), you may develop quite a vocabulary of little 2 and 3 note phrases you can hook together and start playing that stuff you want to hear.

Peace,
Rick

Kirk Lorange · #22 March 7th, 2006

Click here to open movie in external player

Hi coldethyl ... just to show you that chord tones don't have to sound like arpeggios, here's a little movie of a melody line played over this progression ...

| D . . . | C#m . F#7 . | Bm . Bm7 . | G . Gm7 . | D . B7 . | Em . Em/A . | C9-5 . B9 . | E9 . A13 . | D . . . |

... using only chord tones (there is in fact one single non-chord tone* in amongst it all). Looking at the chords, you'll see that most are simple major/minor, meaning 3 chord tone possibilities, but some of the chords are 7ths, meaning an extra CT to play with; the 9ths add one more, so 5 to play with over them, the 13 adds one more ... so you can see that it's actually quite a rich environment to be playing around in.

This example sticks exclusively to CTs, and I had to think about it when playing it as that was my aim, but if I were playing for real, I would simply be thinking of the evolving melody line, outlined in CTs and I would be using any other notes to complete that melody line. Those other notes could be the non-chordtone scale notes, or semitone runs between chord tones, or semitone slide ins to chord tones ...

You can hopefully see and hear that over a progression like this (which is the verse from Georgia), you would have to be mentally switching from one scale to another mode back to the scale back to a mode ... that's because the chords are not all from the key of D. I could never think about that much myself ... thinking one chord at a time, however, keeps everything on track. It's still not simple, but if you're going to have to keep switching back and forth, why not make it something with fewer notes, like chords, which you need to know anyway to play the tune.

*Which note is that? There's a test! ...

feri52 · #23 March 8th, 2006

Hi Kirk or Clancy,
I can't get this to play!

allthumbs · #24 March 8th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by feri52

Hi Kirk or Clancy,
I can't get this to play!

Works for me. Read through posts in the troubleshooting forum about video problems. If that doesn't work. post to Clancy.

coldethyl · #25 March 12th, 2006

Thanks Kirk for sharing that, but I too can't get it to play.

Neil

allthumbs · #26 March 12th, 2006

Post to Clancy in troubleshooting about the vid. I used mediaplayer with no problem.