[carol m]

I want to fix my computer so I can record. I've been reading threads for a couple of hours and would like some guidelines before I take the plunge.

I have already tried using the soundcard that came with the computer with a headset + mic in a USB port, and a relatively cheap mic into the 'mic in' port, but both methods result in 'gale force wind' effects so you can hardly hear the guitar, and nomatter how I try I cannot get the recorder to record for more than 60secs (I'm not taking it personally).

I don't have a pre-mixer or pre-amp but would buy one if I needed it.

I downloaded Audacity version1:2:4 about a year ago and haven't used it yet. When I go to Audacity site there is a version 1:2:6 available.

I can see it's going to take a good deal of effort to learn about a software program, so I should decide before I start if I should go with Audacity or Kristal. I see there's a sticky for Audacity (Hi Kenny), and a lesson on Kristal (Hi Tekker) and now would be the time to make a good choice rather than later. It needs to be as simple as possible as I know zero about levels, clipping, mixing etc. Also I found a Yamaha keyboard in the attic that was used about twice by the kids a few years ago so it would be good if I could tie that in later too.

I have my CD player and speakers linked to my computer already (for listening). I also have an audio tape deck (remember them?) hooked up to the CD player and computer so they are all linked.

My questions are,
1.should I go with Audacity or Kristal?
2.which is 'easier' for a beginner?
3.and if I go with Audacity should I ditch the older version and download the latest version before I start?

Any info and opinion would be appreciated

[namiguShin]

Originally Posted by Tekker

namiguShin has it covered, but also note that Audacity effects are permanent, the only way you can remove an effect is with the undo. So if you save and close the program, it is permanently applied there's no way to get the original audio back (as I don't think Audacity creates another file when appling the effects, but I could be wrong on that).

-tkr

I'm using it just for fun, so I don't even try to save the original (dry) recordings... Because of my cheap "gear", and with all that noise they are not worth anything...

But I think that if you go to "Save Project" all of your changes would be saved... I think that you're referring to exporting files to MP3 or so...

Anyway, this save project thing is not as nearly as practical as using a real DAW, because you're tied up to the sequence of events you were doing... I think that you cannot remove an effect added somewhere in the middle of the process, you'll have to remove all of them done after that particular one... Not sure, haven't done this, but I think this is the way it goes...

On the other hand, when starting this discussion I said that Audacity is good as a free recorder for beginners, and that it is not a sequencer... It's good to start with, to start recording, and then you can import these recordings into a sequencer (like Kristal) when you get more advanced and want to start mixing...

[Lcjones]

Originally Posted by Tekker

namiguShin has it covered, but also note that Audacity effects are permanent, the only way you can remove an effect is with the undo. So if you save and close the program, it is permanently applied there's no way to get the original audio back (as I don't think Audacity creates another file when appling the effects, but I could be wrong on that).

-tkr

Good point tekker!

As a work around to this aspect of Audacity:


The initial recording is the *raw* material you are going to be working with. If you are multi-tracking, you want to get all your tracks recorded first. Without software effects! Obviously, if you are not satisfied with the first take, you can delete, remove, undo any particular track and do it over again. There is no rule that says you have to keep the first track you record.

Once you have your *raw* tracks down, SAVE YOUR PROJECT with what ever name you wish to name it.

Then save it again as another PROJECT with a different name. I always save a project as a song name and date, i.e., my_song-09-21-07 and then save it again as my_song-09-21-07-A. And of course, later saves will be saved with a B, C or whatever I want. Yes, this eats up disk space. Remember, you can always off load these huge files to a CD. It's a good idea to off load in case of hard drive failure anyway. You don't want to lose those special recording moments!

Take your *second* saved PROJECT and use it as your working copy. Make your adjustments, add effects, noise removal or what have you, to this PROJECT. In other words you are mastering this project and not the original raw recording.


**
LC

[Tekker]

Originally Posted by namiguShin

But I think that if you go to "Save Project" all of your changes would be saved... I think that you're referring to exporting files to MP3 or so...

The destructive effects overwrite your wave files that are associated with the project. Even if the project is saved with a different name it will still use the same wave files.

The only way to do what you suggested would be to save the complete project in a new folder. I don't know what this would be called in Audacity, but in Samplitude it is called "Save Complete Project In..." This basically copies all the files (including the wave files) associated with the project to a new location so that your original files are preserved.

On the other hand, when starting this discussion I said that Audacity is good as a free recorder for beginners, and that it is not a sequencer... It's good to start with, to start recording, and then you can import these recordings into a sequencer (like Kristal) when you get more advanced and want to start mixing...

But that's the thing, Kristal and Reaper are not any more difficult to start with.

I'm in the process of making a tutorial that will cover basic recording in a series of basic steps that will apply to ANY recording program you use. Then these steps will be shown (with images) for Kristal, Reaper, and my recording program Samplitude in order to show how similar basic recording is across pretty much any recording platform. It's all a matter of getting to know that particular program and not really about having to "build up" to it.

Just because a program has more advanced features doesn't mean you have to use them right away (or at all). I still don't know the first thing about MIDI even though Samplitude is full of MIDI features. I don't need it, so I don't use it.

But things like "non-destructive real time effects", while they may sound complicated make things SOOOOO much easier (especially for beginners).
- Non-destructive = The effects not applied directly to the wave files so your original recorded wave files are not overwritten.
- Real time = The effects are applied "live" within your recording program while your song is playing. Even when you close down the plugin window it is still running in the background, so you can open it back up again make any changes you want, and close it back down again.

If you do anything with effects (such as adding reverb to your vocals and guitar) then this one feature alone is priceless. For example, if you decide at a later time that you added to much reverb, there's nothing you can do about it in Audacity. However, in Kristal or Reaper, you just simply open up the reverb plugin, turn down the reverb level, save, and that's it.

-tkr

[Tekker]

Originally Posted by Lcjones

Once you have your *raw* tracks down, SAVE YOUR PROJECT with what ever name you wish to name it.

Interesting...... Since two people are saying the same thing, maybe this is the way Audacity works?

Does Audacity create new wave files every time you save your project with a new name?

-tkr

[namiguShin]

Originally Posted by Tekker

The destructive effects overwrite your wave files that are associated with the project. Even if the project is saved with a different name it will still use the same wave files.

Sorry, just to explain what I meant in the previous post... I meant that when you save a project, you're actually saving the whole history of changes you've made to the file...???

As I said, I wasn't working with Audacity very much regarding this issue, so I could be wrong... I.e. you're probably right, Tekker... I.e. I remember this history saving exists in a program I used long time ago... I'm just not sure if it's Audacity...

Once again, sorry if I made a confusion here... Didn't mean to...

Edit: OK, I've just checked and I was wrong... When you save project you're not saving history... Sorry once again... I just wonder where have I seen this feature, what was the program...? Just crossed my mind, it could be it's not from audio recording/editing/mixing/... family at all...

[carol m]

Originally Posted by Lcjones

You don't want to lose those special recording moments!
LC

Nice one, Les.......all of my recording moments have been 'special' so far - each in their own, and very peculiar way.....but so far I've resisted the temptation to keep any of them.

Thanks to namigushin I selected some 'blank' audio at the start and the 'effects' came on board OK. I removed the 'noise' OK but when I played back what was left..... ... imagine a cat being scrambled with a gag in its mouth....and that wasn't even with vocals. I have serious work to do on almost everything! I'm not exactly sure what, but a fair bit of trial and error is called for.

Thanks for all the other info. As yet I am on learning curve 1/2 and you guys are approaching the summit of Everest, but it will all be useful in time.

Does anyone know how to restore the input level back to output level? I tried 'undo' until it wouldn't undo any more but that didn't do it. I closed the program and opened it again, but its stuck on 'input' since I clicked on it and changed it from 'output'. However, this is not the most urgent problem for me to solve

[Lcjones]

Originally Posted by Tekker

Interesting...... Since two people are saying the same thing, maybe this is the way Audacity works?

Does Audacity create new wave files every time you save your project with a new name?

-tkr

yes.

[X4StringDrive]

Hi Carol, I'm using version 1.26 so keep that in mind..it may not apply to you. Mine has two meters on the top right...output and input. output uses green as its color and input uses red and is furthest to the right. If you mean your missing them both go to edit>preferences>interface>and enable meter toolbar{tick/check the box}>click ok....that will replace the meters on your screen. Hope this is what you need.

[Tekker]

Originally Posted by namiguShin

Edit: OK, I've just checked and I was wrong... When you save project you're not saving history... Sorry once again... I just wonder where have I seen this feature, what was the program...? Just crossed my mind, it could be it's not from audio recording/editing/mixing/... family at all...

I dunno, off the top of my head I can't think of any program that saves the history. Usually the history is a temporary thing that only lasts while the project is open. Once it's closed the history is erased.

Originally Posted by Lcjones

yes.

Ah, ok. So Audacity is completely destructive then.

This is a perfect example of having to learn the quirks in each program.

Also I'm curious, does Audacity create new wave files (or modify the existing wave files) when you make edits (such as delete a portion of the waveform)?

The program I started out on (Cakewalk Pro Audio 9) did that. If you split one waveform into two, it deleted the original wave file and created two new wave files for each waveform. What made things worse was all the wave files had to be stored in a certain folder in the Cakewalk installation folder. So needless to say, file management was non-existent in that program. LOL It was a nightmare!!

-tkr

[carol m]

Hi Kenny, I've worked it out. I always had 2 meters. I had clicked on the arrow near the mic on the red meter and then on Monitor input in the drop down, so I could get a read out of volumes before I pressed record (useful). But when I played back the recording the red meter was blank. Now I realilse it was probably always blank in 'play' mode so that's not a problem at all.

Plenty more to work on though, and playing well is not the least of them - hearing yourself recorded sure gives honest feedback and shows up your deficiencies!

[carol m]

Hi there friends and helpers. I visited my local guitar shop to get the mic stand today. They had a mic stand but nothing to connect the mic to it with and can't get one for a couple of days.......however, after carefully avoiding eye contact with all the temptations on display, I bought a lead for my acoustic/electric Takamine, rushed home, did a quick revision of Tekker's 'techy' lessons, plugged in my guitar, opened Audacity and......nothing.....but I didn't panic! A quick trip to the local store to buy a new battery and.....still nothing. Checked my record settings again. Hmmmm. Realised that I had no idea where my warranty was or how long it lasted for.... That was when I noticed that the volume control on the guitar was set at zero. Kazam..... ..I have sound, and almost no interference.

Don't wait up......I'll be a while, playing with my new toy Thanks again everyone.

[skinnybloke]

Originally Posted by carol m

That was when I noticed that the volume control on the guitar was set at zero. Kazam..... ..I have sound,

Mmmm......A very steep learning curve
This has been a good thread Carol, your obviously enjoying yourself!

[Hilch]

Might I add my 2 cents worth in here ?

OK no objections LOL

Fist of all record for yourself , sign up for a soundclick account and up load your music { this is very easy ) I can help you there .

You don't need expensive gear to start with , just line to computor if your using a electric guitar , a mic for acustic guitar once again no need for expensive gear .

There is heaps of help around to get you started so whats stopping everyone ? No-one can force you to post your recordings but I have found posting what I have done has helped me BIG TIME , more experienced players offering suggestions , and even some adding to your recording ...

Do it for yourself
Trev..

[carol m]

Thanks for your ideas Hilch. Message recieved and understood. It's already a 'work in progress' - you have been warned.

Plugging in my acoustic/electric direct to computer has been a breakthrough - a giant leap for......how did that go again..?

[Hilch]

Originally Posted by carol m

Thanks for your ideas Hilch. Message recieved and understood. It's already a 'work in progress' - you have been warned.

Plugging in my acoustic/electric direct to computer has been a breakthrough - a giant leap for......how did that go again..?

I'm confused Carol , did you do this { the bold type? } , the "How do I do this again has me baffled . Line in from guitar to computor you will need a adapter for your guitar lead into your computor
1/4 inch to 1/16 th I think it is ...

They only cost about $2 from memory ,

Happy recording
Trev..