[Nem]

ah I know what you mean about the synchronisation now Neil, tho I guess that all comes down to practise

I do have a question though
when you played your versions of this piece, I assume you had all the notes memorised right? because anyone reading at the speed must be insane :|

but the thing I noticed is that I cant count and play at the same time so how do you play to a metronome? do you just remember how many notes you have to play before the next metronome beat?

[Neilsonite]

Hi Nem, glad you hear what I mean about synchronization, and you're right about it coming down to practice, but it's practice with a metronome that does it, so I'm glad you asked!

The first thing you need to do is stabilise your sense of rhythm - it needs to be going along crystal clear inside your head. In the long run, it's not so much about counting, it's about feeling. But, to start, I've attached an example of me counting out various types of notes along with a metronome (set to 60bpm).

Here's how the exercise works... I count out two bars of each of the following types of rhythms:

1/4 notes (1 note per metronome tick, count 1-2-3-4)
1/8 notes (2 notes per metronome tick, count 1-&-2-&-3-&-4-&)
1/16 notes (4 notes per metronome tick, count 1-e-&-a-2-e-&-a-3-e-&-a-4-e-&-a)

The next part involves triplets, which fit three notes into the space normally occupied by two of that type of note:

1/8 note triplets (3 notes per metronome tick, count 1-&-a-2-&-a-3-&-a-4-&-a)
1/16 note triplets (6 notes per metronome tick, count 1-&-a-DA-&-a-2-&-a-DA-&-a-3-&-a-DA-&-a-4-&-a-DA-&-a-)

Once this counting becomes easy, you'll be ready to try playing notes in particular rhythms. A good way to start is using multiple picking, where you play each note a number of times. For example, you could play through 1 octave of the C major scale, playing each note a number of times per metronome beat, depending on the note grouping you're practicing. In this case, each note would be played once, then 2x, then 4x, then 3x, then 6x. I've added that at the end of the exercise.

Oh, and on the reading, it was a new piece for me, but I know the tune, and I know lots of similar songs, so really I was using the music to remind me what chunk came up next, but each chunk was under my fingers already.

Hope that helps,
James

[Nem]

thanks for that James

the thing is, I know how to count out different notes (which is what your post talks about) and I know how to look at a piece of sheet and see what the different notes are

my problem is knowing how quickly each note goes in relation to a metronome

if we look at the pdf you posted up at bar 15 for example

whats the first thing you think about when you come to a bar like that? do you think, ok its in 2/4 so the main accents are on the E and F notes, so make sure when the click on the metronome comes about you play those 2 notes?
or do you think of it like, first metronome click I need to think 1 &, then the next metronome click i need to think 1 e & a

Im really not making myself very clear I really wish I could play to a metronome, but its this very thing which I cant explain properly thats holding me back. its quite frustrating

[Neilsonite]

No worries Nem, I think I understand what you're asking about... Did you try listening to the exercise I posted? You might need to do that repeatedly over the next week or so... I really believe that it's one thing to intellectually know how the rhythms are counted out, and another thing to feel it. In my experience, counting along with a metronome (rather than simply counting without a metronome to guide you) will help internalize the sense of rhythm. After a while, you will be able to hear a metronome, and automatically know how any note grouping will sound without counting it out.

So, in answer to your question about focusing on the accents versus focusing on the subdivisions, I think it's both. In bar 15, I see that the first 'beat' (i.e. 1/4-note metronome tick) has two 1/8 notes, and the second beat has four 1/16 notes. But, I don't count 1___&___2_e_&_a when I'm playing, I just feel the 1/4 note pulse, and lining the subdivisions up with that pulse, I hear "da____da____da_da_da_da". You could try setting a metronome to 60bpm or so, and practice saying that "da____da____da_da_da_da", really locking on to that metronome tick on the first and third notes to focus on the rhythm, rather than the numbers.

It's important that I'm not guessing where the subdivisions are, I really can feel clear 1/8 note and 1/16 note pulses when listening to that 1/4-note metronome tick. I don't just remember how many notes before the next tick, I feel the subdivisions.

People vary in how difficult it is for them to develop their internal sense of rhythm, but in my experience that exercise of counting along to a metronome will really help a lot.

James

[PickNGrin]

Video! Nice! You use your pinky well too!

[WernHalen]

I go with Neilsonite... Go slowly and if your metronome can do it set it to 1/8th notes. Play there for a while until you are comfortable...then switch to 1/4 notes on the metronome, still playing the 1/8th note pattern... If you have problems then just go back and play with the metronome at 1/8ths again. You should remember that from 1/4 to 1/8 it is double the time so divide the space between the clicks into two, and try to place the notes you play right in the middle... Record yourself and listen to it afterwards you'll be able to count then while you are not playing. Then you'll be able to judge for yourself how well you are playing...

If you are recording with something like audacity you'll be able to place a metronome in afterwards and you'll be able to manipulate the number of clicks (eg. from 1/4 to 1/8, just double the speed...) This should give you a better picture. Otherwise run your recording through audacity and quantize the piece then play the original with the quantized piece and listen to the difference. (I am not too familiar with audacity, i've played around with Qbase and pro tools abit...)

[Nem]

Originally Posted by Neilsonite

No worries Nem, I think I understand what you're asking about... Did you try listening to the exercise I posted? You might need to do that repeatedly over the next week or so... I really believe that it's one thing to intellectually know how the rhythms are counted out, and another thing to feel it. In my experience, counting along with a metronome (rather than simply counting without a metronome to guide you) will help internalize the sense of rhythm. After a while, you will be able to hear a metronome, and automatically know how any note grouping will sound without counting it out.

So, in answer to your question about focusing on the accents versus focusing on the subdivisions, I think it's both. In bar 15, I see that the first 'beat' (i.e. 1/4-note metronome tick) has two 1/8 notes, and the second beat has four 1/16 notes. But, I don't count 1___&___2_e_&_a when I'm playing, I just feel the 1/4 note pulse, and lining the subdivisions up with that pulse, I hear "da____da____da_da_da_da". You could try setting a metronome to 60bpm or so, and practice saying that "da____da____da_da_da_da", really locking on to that metronome tick on the first and third notes to focus on the rhythm, rather than the numbers.

It's important that I'm not guessing where the subdivisions are, I really can feel clear 1/8 note and 1/16 note pulses when listening to that 1/4-note metronome tick. I don't just remember how many notes before the next tick, I feel the subdivisions.

People vary in how difficult it is for them to develop their internal sense of rhythm, but in my experience that exercise of counting along to a metronome will really help a lot.

James

ok, well ive been working on that exercise for about a week now, i dont really feel myself improving, if anything im realising how much i actually suck lol ill keep at it tho

one more thing. when ur looking at a piece if sheet music with timing then i guess you can feel the beats and where the divisions need to lie

but what if youve commited a piece to memory? cos i have quite a few pieces stored in my head, but when i try to play it to a metronome, i have no clue what the beats are meant to be, where the notes are meant to lie etc
does this mean i basically have to go back and rememorize the pieces that i know but also remembering the actual timing as well?

or there an exercise that could help me with playing any old tune to a metronome regardless of whether i know the actual timing and rhythm?

[Neilsonite]

Hi Nem, I'm sorry you're not noticing any improvement, hope you're not getting too frustrated. I'm assuming that means you're having trouble with it, not that you find it so easy there's no room to improve - sorry if I'm wrong!

The good news is that I've taught lots of students who had real problems developing their sense of rhythm, but for everyone there's been a certain stage where it just 'clicks', and all of it becomes easy. When you're at this stage, you won't have to 'learn' rhythms unless they are very complex - you'll just hear them and know them. On songs you already know, you may need to go back and just listen a few times, but it shouldn't be harder than that.

I originally wasn't sure how experienced you were rhythmically, so if the earlier exercise isn't coming together, I suggest this:

- Set your metronome to 80bpm
- Try to rock your body forward a little with each metronome beat. If you've seen people skipping rope (when two other people are swinging the rope for them, and they need to jump into the middle to start skipping), you may have noticed them doing this in time with the rhythm of the rope before they jump in.

- Once you're comfortable, count out 1/4 notes for a full minute, or longer if you need. You can count 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 or 'da - da - da - da' or whatever is easiest, just keep rocking your body and making a sound in time with the metronome.
- When you're comfortable with that, count out 1/8 notes by doing the same thing. If you rock your body forward on each tick of the metronome, the in-between beats will be when your body is moving backwards.

I'd repeat this exercise a few times a day, it should only take a couple of minutes each time.

This may sound too simple, but all the other beats are based on subdivisions of 1/4 notes and 1/8 notes, so if you have these rhythms really solid, then everything else will fall into place more easily. I'd leave the other rhythms for later...

One extra thing you might want to try is tapping your foot along to songs. The idea is to listen really carefully, and concentrate on being right on the beat. Dance songs are good to start with, but after a while any song with a drum beat will do. Don't worry if you're tapping out 1/4 notes or 1/8 notes, just find the pulse that feels right. If you're not sure you've got it right, Mums/girlfriends/wives are often more likely to have focused on dancing when they were young, and may be able to help out...

Hope this helps,
James