[shredder567]

a reliable guitarist told me that all u need to know fr playin lead is a good knowledge of major scales...so if i learn da major sclae in all da five positions n then be creative with those notes , will it b enuf ?? it sounds nice to me cuz i can change da key by movin up or down the frets.....am i right???

one more thing...there are millions of amazing guitarists in this world n surely all of em cant have absolute knowledge about all scales cuz from wat i can make out it needs a decent amount of intellect ( which i think i lack ) ..then how do these guys reach at a level where they can improvise n make one hell of a solo...surely there has to b a way out

i hope this is not misinterpreted as me tryin to take an easy way out ( i rlly work hard at guitarin) cuz i'm really curious to find a way through which i can improvise decently wen my buddy gives me any kinda chord progression n not js be stuck in a box...thnx

[gravitas]

I've always been of the opinion that you should learn everything, regardless of whether it's strictly neccessary or not.

[Kirk Lorange]

Originally Posted by gravitas

I've always been of the opinion that you should learn everything, regardless of whether it's strictly neccessary or not.

Well said, gravitas. Soak up as much knowledge as you can ... only then will you know what's important and what's not when it actually comes to playing an instrument. It's all very well to talk, think, debate, discuss and banter on about how music works and the seemingly infinite ways of describing how those 12 notes and time can interact, but when it comes to real time playing, you need to find your 'zone'. Keep learning as much as you can and you'll know it when you get there... and when you do, you'll realize how much more there is to learn.

[Ldavis04]

Originally Posted by Kirk Lorange

and when you do, you'll realize how much more there is to learn.

"The deeper I go, the deeper it gets".......

[scotty_b]

Originally Posted by shredder567

a reliable guitarist told me that all u need to know fr playin lead is a good knowledge of major scales...

I know I am jumping in on the end of this, but that isn't really true.
Stevie Ray Vaughan never really used the major scale, and while useful in some instances, is not always the best choice in other genres or contexts. The major scale is useful to learn in terms of a better understanding of theory, so it would be good to learn its construction and how it relates to harmony

[BackToBlack]

This is great info as I'm beginning to solo. I just dance around within scales.

[Djangolad]

Great question shred
My way of thinking is kind of Zen like. That is you might want to learn all the theory but then you must unlearn it and empty out so the song can be itself. If you consider a lead solo by theory only how r u ever going to give the song it's own soul.
If theres any one mode to get a hang of it's got to be the major.
Minors and pentatonics have an immediate sense of sameness about them. Melody is #1 consideration, you can do more of that with a good understanding of the major scales and an open mind than yo can with many of the other minor scales.
But knowledge is power bro, the more you know the further you go.
Just remember though that your intuition is Boss.

[felixdcat]

You can master, but then I guess you still won't be happy. I wouldn't bother. Get PlaneTalk.

[gravitas]

I heartily disagree. Every mode has it's own seperate character, it's own colour, regardless of what scale it's from. They're like their own chords. I'd say it's beneficial to learn the harmonic and melodic minors too, as well as all of their modes.

It just doesn't make sense to me that anyone would be violently opposed to learning scales, especially seeing as their constructions are symmetrical, as well as identical to chord makeup. I'm not knocking Kirk's method, don't get me wrong. Just don't lock any doors before you know what's behind them.

[monk]

There are 3 symmetrical scales.
Chromatic, Diminished & Whole Tone.

The Major, Harmonic Minor and Melodic Minor are asymmetrical as are the Major and Minor Pentatonic.

There is a great deal of misunderstanding about how scales relate to learning an instrument. Scales are primarily a device to train a beginner how to develop dexterity and how to locate the notes in each key. Ask anyone who has ever had piano lessons. They first learn the 5 finger pattern in C. Then they add the rest of the scale and learn to play Mary Had a Little Lamb orTwinkle,Twinkle Little Star.

Modern rock is predominantly a scalar music. You can learn to play a lot of rock with pentatonic & diatonic scales. But if you ever decide to move into other types of music, scales won't cut it. Neither will modes.

The information needed to improvise competently and intelligently is found in scales but is not the scale itself.

Regards,
Monk

[Hilch]

Originally Posted by Fong

C Major Scale.

C D E F G A B C

Is also, the Ionian Mode. That is the first Mode. C to C no sharps no flats.

So if we list them all :-

C D E F G A B C - Major Scale - Ionian
D E F G A B C D - Dorian Mode
E F G A B C D E - Phrygian
F G A B C D E F - Lydian
G A B C D E F G - Mixolydian
A B C D E F G A - Aeolian Mode
B C D E F G A B - Locrian

There are no sharps, and no flats anywhere in any of those modes.

Now what I think is confusing the issue, is that you are talking about starting a mode from C.

For instance.

If I wanted to play the Lydian Mode in C, which isn't the same as above, I have to keep the same step pattern.

F t G t A t B s C t D t E s F

C t D t E t F# s G t A t B s C

Now I have the sharpened 4th

This continues on in the way you have explained....7th flattened for the Mixolydian and such.

As long as you follow the step pattern of the Mode when it originates from the Scale of C Major (ie moving up one note at a time as I explained earlier) then you can find the Mode for any Key reasonably quickly.

Thanks fong

[solidwalnut]

I realize that I have a limited world-view when it comes to playing the guitar. I've been playing for many years, and I'd say my main focus has always been rhythm.

But then I began learning how to play what I hear, and playing notes. It's been said many times that melody is king. Since most of us are primarily concerned with playing folk/rock/blues/jazz types of music, one needs to realize that the basis for these types of music is the major scale (when I say that, I say that with the idea that even though the blues uses a minor scale as it's archtype, the idea of the minor is that it is related to, has it's roots in, is a portion of, the major scale).

It's not the major scale as a scale to play, it's the major scale in a study of the intervals thereof. One can find all of the modes mentioned above in Fong's post as from the major scale intervals. The different modes just have a different starting point within the interval scheme.

So, is the major scale enough?? What a loaded question. How about this one--do you know the major scale and it's intervals? If you don't, you may as well forget about the rest. As Kirk said earlier, the major scale is a template for all the rest. We define the differences we hear in the other scales and modes to the major one.

Is the major scale enough as far as playing runs and scales? I have to tell you that the majority of lead lines I play come from the major scale and it's intervals. Basic major. Basic minor. Basic blues. Master the basics.

Steve

[Cedric01]

Originally Posted by monk

There are 3 symmetrical scales.
Chromatic, Diminished & Whole Tone.

The Major, Harmonic Minor and Melodic Minor are asymmetrical as are the Major and Minor Pentatonic.

There is a great deal of misunderstanding about how scales relate to learning an instrument. Scales are primarily a device to train a beginner how to develop dexterity and how to locate the notes in each key. Ask anyone who has ever had piano lessons. They first learn the 5 finger pattern in C. Then they add the rest of the scale and learn to play Mary Had a Little Lamb orTwinkle,Twinkle Little Star.

Modern rock is predominantly a scalar music. You can learn to play a lot of rock with pentatonic & diatonic scales. But if you ever decide to move into other types of music, scales won't cut it. Neither will modes.

The information needed to improvise competently and intelligently is found in scales but is not the scale itself.

Regards,
Monk

Would you please clarify what types of music where scales are not needed?

[Fong]

Originally Posted by Cedric01

Would you please clarify what types of music where scales are not needed?

Thats not actually what he said.

"the information needed to improvise competently and intelligently is found in scales but is not the scale itself."

It is correct, but it is also pretty obvious, if you play the Chord Em and then play the Em Pentatonic Scale, it will sound 'ok' nothing will sound wrong, but it certainly wouldn't be improvisation, since you are not improvising, you are just playing the set scale.

Picking out notes from a scale is improvising, knowing what notes will sound right and having a deep enough understanding that you know where you want to go next to get the sound you want, is improvising.

As for the deeper part saying scales and modes won't cut it, I don't know if you are right there Monk.

As far as am aware all that jazz encompasses, and this is the deepest of improv as far as I am concerned, is a better understanding of the scales and how they are built around chords, then playing those scales according to the chords being played behind it.

[Kirk Lorange]

Fong, monk will correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure he meant that it's chords that you must be totally familiar with those non-rock genres, such as jazz. By knowing chords inside an out, you automatically know scales/modes. Knowing all scales and modes won't be of any use unless you know what the chord structure of a piece of music, and knowing the chord structure (really knowing it) means you don't really need to think in modes or scales ... chords are enough. They contain all the scale/mode information needed.

[Fong]

Originally Posted by Kirk Lorange

Fong, monk will correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure he meant that it's chords that you must be totally familiar with those non-rock genres, such as jazz. By knowing chords inside an out, you automatically know scales/modes. Knowing all scales and modes won't be of any use unless you know what the chord structure of a piece of music, and knowing the chord structure (really knowing it) means you don't really need to think in modes or scales ... chords are enough. They contain all the scale/mode information needed.

I have always found that to be a bit of a chicken and egg situation.

How do you build a chord?

By using the scales.

How do you play in scales?

By using the chords.

Very chicken and egg though in the sense of what you need first.