[Clancy]

Originally Posted by Chaotic Kittie

Currently Ultimate-Guitar is the only site that really waves the banner of tablature... Apart from that, yes, FREE tablature seems to be dying a death everywhere.

Ultimate-guitar is based in Russia, so they are protected under Russian copyright laws, which are basically non-existent from what I understand. They can continue legally. Real fair hey?

Clancy

[Lcjones]

**

Tab isn't going to go away.

What we have here, as in the entire Digital Rights Management , is a world-wide adjustment to how things are done. We all know the Internet has been literally wide open, frontier land for anyone and anything the past 10 years. The initial premise was if it's on the Internet it's free. Now that governments and businesses see, in fact, the Internet "is business" and not a plaything, they want what's due to them. Up to this point it's been a novelty. Now it's business.

Tab isn't going away. Like downloading music, it's in a transition phase. They, meaning the suits, are just trying to figure out how to get it done with the least hassle and the most ROI. The down side to it is that we will have to pay for it. Rightfully so. If it's copyright protected, someone has to pay and someone has to get paid.

It's business.

**
LC

[eddiez152]

I am a member of E-chords. you know what. It is not a free site, but
a very good one for midi,tabs,etc.

[Clancy]

E-chords.com looks to me like they are based in Brazil. They probably have non-existent copyright laws there too, that's the only reason they haven't been shut down. You may be paying for it Eddie, but the money isn't going to anyone for copyright. So Ultimate-guitar.com, E-chords.com and the like will be able to continue on their merry way.

Clancy

[tonedeaf]

Here's two articles I hope everyone will find informtive I'm sad to say. Both articles are out of the NY Times.


Now the Music Industry Wants Guitarists to Stop Sharing


E-COMMERCE REPORT; Hoping to Move Guitar Notations Into the Legal Sunshine

[starsailor]

I don't think Tab is dead, like other contributers I thinks it's just going through the same process that the download sites went through, when the smoke clears more Tab sites will appear or like Napster return on a legal footing, although music publishers will make money, Artists will as well, spare a thought for the struggling Musician who may have had a few hits decades ago but the went out of favour, these guys deserve reward for their work. The PRS protects performance of their songs why shouldn't they have their Tabs protected as well if we decided to write a word for word copy of say Harry Potter, J.k. Rowling would sue without hesitation, why shouldn't songwriters have the same protection, they love playing music but need to make a living.

Cheers

Chris

[Europa]

911tabs is the one I use, it still seems to be doing ok though.

But yea its true, they're cracking down on free tabs

[jon_stggt]

With so many forums out there on the WWW you can be sure, someone somewhere will provide tab for anything requested. Doing away with tab is about as realistic as not being able to get hold of software cracks.
A little more searching will be required, but you can be sure, whatever you want can and will always be found on the internet.

[Europa]

Thank the Lord for the internet

[Dewy]

Clancy, I believe the Copyright laws allow him to post up to 4 lines of an article, and link to it... but your right, posting the article in its entirety prevents us from going there and increasing their ad revenue, and would be considered infringement.

As to the Article's references to "Paying" for tab... it would have to be tabbed out by professionals before I'd CONSIDER paying for it... and the life of the Tab sites has been user submissions. I think this legally should allow Tab sites to continue... as these are interpretations of copyrighted works... and all credit is given to the original artists.

But it comes down to the lawyer fees... no one is willing to pay a lawyer to fight the recording industry for something that is basically a service, not a revenue stream.

There is a huge argument here... and I know Clancy and Kirk don't really want it hashed out here, so I would like to invite folks over to a site where we debate the economics of Scarcity... a site called Techdirt.

Basically we examine the economics of the digital age and how it will impact the free market. Music, filesharing and copyright infringment seem to be the best understood effect of the digital revolution... but it also applies to Movies, books, television shows, news releases... anything that is "intellectual property".

The basis of the discussion is wrapped around the fact that the internet and computers have reduced the cost of distribution to near zero, and how the industries built around delivering that content to you for a profit are resisting the new opportunities available to them with the new medium.

In the end it is Greed... and we all have the seed of greed within us. Some folks nurture it as a fruit tree, others pluck it like a weed from their garden. In the end I believe the world will come to understand that a 128kps file of a song is NOT the song, and it should be shared freely. That the education of the next generation of musicians is much more important than the pennies they would make from Tab sales.

Hell, the reason you have never had GOOD tab books (the guitar magazines retained someone on staff to do excellent Tab notation) isn't because they were free on the internet... its because they charged too much for poor quality Tab books that covered 10 songs you had no use for to every one you might purchase it for.

There is a Digital Revolution underway, and music for one will change greatly... and thrive as it always has. Musicians will continue to make money... its the middle man who is getting the pinch. They either need to adapt, or retire.

[__tsidewinder__]

"tablature could cost about $800 per song to produce, license and format for downloading."

That sounds like a ridiculous claim to me. How much are they paying the guy to tab it out? Some people can produce a 100 percent accurate tab within an hour, no problem.

I think they should keep current tab sites, and then make their own where you can pay for guaranteed 100 percent accurate tab. The user tab sites would probably die quickly, without all this legal fuss, and people could still produce accurate tab on the net without worrying about a lawsuit.

I know a site where I can get a completely accurate stairway to heaven solo tab, without paying for it. I have used this site (which is a small site, seemingly run by one person) about as much as UG. These sites could continue to run, and people could also be happy to know that for a small fee, they could learn a song accurately guaranteed.

I doubt this will happen, but it would be best for everyone.

[Dewy]

Its the same with so many topics in this day and age... problems need solutions, but proponants on both sides turn it into a heated or moral issue.

It takes calm minds first, then rational minds, then we can get to visionaries putting forth international guidelines for copyrights and how to effectively apply them. I hope we can work around the shortage of calm minds, and get right to the rational part of the debate, because the issue is Global now, no longer regional.

It comes down to the most basic principle of copyrights and patents: how to encourage the release of new ideas and intellectual content, while protecting the creator and maximizing the exposure of the public to the benefits of the Idea.

The exposure part is revolutionized with the internet. Now a kid in Indiana develops a way to purify water for pennies on the gallon and the whole of Africa can be saved. IF he releases it.

The biggest proponants of the copyrights and patent infringment cases in the U.S. are Owners of the rights... not the creators. A point often lost on the common man and forgotten in the news blurbs.

[fly135]

There is a mysongbook compilation of 50,000+ tabs floating around on the net that you can get with bittorent thru ioshunt.com. So go get it and buy yourself a copy of Guitar Pro.

I think the music industry is going after tab sites so that they can sell tab books. A long time ago I tried to learn to play the guitar and bought a bunch of books. They didn't care much about tabs back then. They just gave you the lyrics and a bunch of chords in the wrong key. Being a beginner I was lost and never learned to play.

Along comes the internet and the musician community tabs out the songs by ear, usually in the correct key and pretty close to the real thing. They post them on the web and now everyone can learn songs much easier. So then the music industry decides they have to make books with accurate tabs and in the right key. Then they go after the webs sites. So all the tabs made by real musicians who cared enough to do a good job are considered "pirated". But if it wasn't for the internet and those tabs we'd still be getting nothing but fake books, in the wrong key.

[si16]

Originally Posted by fly135

Then they go after the webs sites. So all the tabs made by real musicians who cared enough to do a good job are considered "pirated". But if it wasn't for the internet and those tabs we'd still be getting nothing but fake books, in the wrong key.

Very true Fly. Tab is often derided, and many times quite rightly so, but when it's done properly as in Kirk's lessons here or by some of the great Internet tabbers like Andrew Rogers or Larry Kuhns (better known as LarryKu on this site) it's about as good an educational tool as you could wish to have.

[totamed]

Let's not forget the true beginner who might find a song "incorrectly" tabbed but is in written in chords easy enough for him to play. He might see the "correct" version and be intimidated; but find a simpler version that he can play. Do you think he cares that it's not "authentic"? I think he is just elated to find songs he's able to play. Thus he gains satisfaction, knpwledge, confidence and experience. This is going to make him want to play, later on as he develops, he can play the correct version because he has learned so much more. In my opinion if he can't play songs he wants to play early in his "career" he is more likely to give up the guitar. If he can play he's going to want to play more!